Selling with Hubspot
Selling with HubSpot is a podcast hosted by Luis Silva-Ball, CEO & Co-Founder of Digifianz designed to help HubSpot sales reps optimize their sales processes for greater success.
Selling with Hubspot
Sales Director Shares How to Smash in Both Sales and Jiu Jitsu
Ever thought about the parallels between Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and sales?
Join us as we dive into a fascinating conversation with David Torres, a sales veteran and skilled Jiu Jitsu practitioner. David takes us on a journey, illuminating the unexpected similarities between these seemingly disparate worlds. He shares invaluable insights about the cycle of grinding, survival, failure, and success - elements that are strikingly identical in both fields.
We tackle the necessity of evolution and adaptation for growth, a concept that rings true both on the mat and in the sales arena. Whether you're grappling with a tough opponent or a challenging prospect, staying hydrated, maintaining a learning mindset, and stepping out of the comfort zone are keys to triumph. David even shares a bit about his own risk-taking adventure during the pandemic, training despite the odds.
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVID
👤 LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidstorres19/
🔗 CONNECT WITH LUIS & DIGIFIANZ
👤 LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/luissilvaball/
🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/LuisSilvaBall
💻 Digifianz Website - https://www.digifianz.com/
WHAT IS DIGIFIANZ?
Digifianz is an award winning HubSpot Diamond Partner. At Digifianz, we believe in the transformational power of humanizing business relationships. We believe driving honest, open conversations with prospects, and constantly providing them with value before they've ever bought anything, ultimately leads to better sales and a happier & loyal customer base. That's why we help companies grow with a people-first mentality & strategy.
Hey everyone, welcome to our podcast selling with HubSpot. We're here with David Torres who, in addition to being a sales legend, is also a Jiu Jitsu badass.
Speaker 2:Thank you. That's what I like to put on my LinkedIn as well. I'm a Jiu Jitsu badass.
Speaker 1:Jiu Jitsu, I love it. You really should, I really should.
Speaker 2:I actually had someone reach out to me saying hey, I see you trained Jiu Jitsu. Let's hope one day business happens on the mat so not just up to golf course All of it. That LinkedIn message. He can tell me whatever he wants.
Speaker 1:That got connected with me in my life Really. Yeah, I love it, man. David, we were talking before. Already. You told us a bit about who you are, what you do at HubSpot. Could you give us a reminder, maybe for people who haven't listened to our previous episode?
Speaker 2:I've been at HubSpot for 10 years now Today's 2023. I started 2013. I don't know when you're watching this video or listening to this podcast, but right now it's 10 years. It's been an insane 10 years, because I started my sales career at HubSpot. I was a BDR, cold calling making my dials, became a rep, became our manager. Now I'm a director. I've gotten to see the evolution of not only HubSpot as a business and as a company and as a product, but also the way that we as sales people have had to pivot, have had to evolve, have had to grow, because what worked yesterday is not always going to work tomorrow. The cool thing is, as we were talking, there's parallels with the hobby that we both enjoy this idea of combat sports and, in my world, brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker 1:Love it, love it. We were also remembering that time when COVID was shutting down everything the world was shutting down. We were here for Partner Day. Partner Day got cancer. It was just like you, me and like five other people in the office. We were talking about Jiu Jitsu and I do crap about God. You do Jiu Jitsu. Why not let's go train together?
Speaker 2:Let's go train. In hindsight, I'm so happy that everything worked out well, because that was very much a time of uncertainty Coming from international flights Probably should have been a little more responsible on my end, but nah, I'm glad we trained in those. Oh, that was a good time.
Speaker 1:David, could you tell us a bit? We're talking about how there's so many parallels between Jiu Jitsu and selling. Yeah, Could you tell us a bit about that? What kind of parallels do you see? What kind of lessons do you see that you can draw from Jiu Jitsu and implement them in your sales?
Speaker 2:For those that don't know the sport of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or Jiu Jitsu in general, they call it the gentle art, but it does to be a very it's a very contact based sport. It's a sport where you're looking to win a fight using chokes, using arm locks. You're trying to take home a shoulder, an elbow, you're trying to take home a knee. It could be a sport that's a little bit brutal. It's a sport that's very and it can be very humbling too. I weigh, let's say, 170, right, I'm 5'11, and I'm thinking to myself well, I know how to fight and I'm a tough guy. And then you're going to meet some guy at the gym who's maybe a buck 40 and he's going to make you feel like do you even train, do you?
Speaker 1:even know how to get into things. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Your ego is consistently hit, because there's days you show up to the gym and you're the hammer and everybody's a nail, and there's days when you show up and you're like, oh, today I'm going to be the nail for everybody.
Speaker 2:It's going to be a cycle of grinding. It's going to be a cycle of being like this is going to be rough, this is going to suck, but you know what I'm going to get through this. The cool thing about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is you really do get out of it when you get out of it, when you get it put into it, but you're going to lose so much more than you win. That's, I think, my first parallel with sales, because whenever you pick up, whenever you get on the mat and they always say your first day is your most important day Because once you start, you get a sense of okay, this is where I'm at, this is where I need to improve, and I'm committed with myself to do it, because you're going to lose a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot more than you're going to win.
Speaker 1:It's so easy to get frustrated by that it's so easy to get frustrated.
Speaker 2:It's such an ego check, you know, especially when you have folks that show up and they've been successful athletes playing football, maybe even boxing doing more, yeah, the big guys, and then you're like oh, that's a pretty big arm you have, let me just drag it across.
Speaker 2:And you get on your back. Oh, what can you do now? I got your neck, you know, and it can be very humbling. And I always think about sales, because the best close rate, the best close rate that I've seen let's say, folks are on a 30%. That means that you're losing 70% of the time. So you're going to lose a lot more, at least twice as much as you win, and that can be so defeating, that can be so deflating.
Speaker 2:So when you start doing Jiu Jitsu, you're known as a white belt. You know, you show up and it really is about a year and a half of learning how to survive, knowing that you know what. Yeah, that was not fun, but I'm not made of glass. I can come back tomorrow. Oh, and I actually got a little bit better and I was actually able to survive a lot longer than I was previously. You know what that's a little victory, and I think so much of sales depends on finding little victories, because otherwise you're going to burn yourself out, you're going to get frustrated. But if you recognize, hey, today I was a little bit better than I was yesterday. That's progress. And if you can be a little bit better today, a little bit better tomorrow, a little bit better the day after tomorrow, you just made, let's say, 10, 15, 20% improvement in three days, happy days, just because you were open to trying things differently.
Speaker 2:See, in jiu-jitsu what happens a lot is when you don't know what you don't know, you make mistakes. Now, one of the things that we talk about a lot when you train is hey, keep your elbows by your hips, because the second that your elbows are up, oh yeah, you're open, that's isolated, that's weak. Well, when you start out, your arms are over here and you're flailing and someone's arm dragging you, someone is taking your arm home with them. All this when you're like oh, I didn't know my arm was supposed to bend that way, oh no, it doesn't, and you have to tap. But as time goes on, you learn. Ooh, you know what? Last time I made a mistake of leaving out my elbow way too deep. You know what? Let me tuck it in a little bit. You recognize? Oh, I'm coming into my head first and that's why I keep getting choked. Let me not come in with my head, let me come in with my hips first, because that's gonna give me a better base. So the more you train the sport, the more you recognize oh, these are the little mistakes that I'm making that are creating big consequences for myself.
Speaker 2:So your first two years in Jiu Jitsu are really about survival, it's can you get your skins or can you, you know, skin your knees and get back up and I think a lot about that in sales, especially when you're starting out at here at HubSpot. You're gonna skin your knees and that's almost a given. That's why we have a generous ramp. But the other side of that coin is do you have what it takes to just be a little bit better? Can you make one small improvement today? That's gonna yield you one small improvement tomorrow, cause that's two improvements right there, and that's really the first big parallel with Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker 2:The second parallel with Jiu Jitsu is you're gonna learn a lot of things, but not everything is gonna be required that right then. And there Let me give you an example. So there's things called escapes, when someone's on top of you and they're, you know, like a suffocating you and they're putting their weight down and you can try one escape and you might be good at that escape. But what if that person's better at holding the position that you are at that escape? Yeah, yeah, you can't keep it in yourself, attached to the escape, you gotta learn one more. And now it's where you get a decision what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And it really comes down to that moment in time, cause not everything's gonna work, especially when you're fighting another trained assassin. You know not everything's gonna work, but if you can't you can't stay in your comfort zone, you can't.
Speaker 2:Once you recognize, okay, this context is different. What do I do in this particular context? That's where you grow as a Jiu Jitsu fighter and as an athlete. Same in sales. I might be really good at doing a sales pro demo and I'm so good at talking about automation. And I can talk about automation, automation, this, automation, that automation, this.
Speaker 2:And then I'm gonna run into a prospect that goes I know, automation, what else you got? And that's where you freeze. That's when you start to think to yourself oh well, let me tell you about reporting, and you fumble. But if you recognize the context for what it is and you're open to learning of, why am I being stuck in this position? Hey prospect, why is that important to you? Or hey prospect, why did you get to know so much about automation? Tell me a little bit about your context, tell me about your day to day, and you're able to learn. You pivot next time you run into that situation. See, the cool thing about Jiu Jitsu is everything becomes a learning opportunity. And, as cheesy as it sounds, the mindset you have got to have is I don't lose, either I win or I learn. Love it, because you're gonna be learning a lot, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 1:You're gonna be learning more than you're gonna be winning.
Speaker 2:You're gonna be learning about three times as much as you're winning, and the same thing happens in sales. If you're not learning with every interaction, if you're marking that deal closed, lost, and the only thing you're saying to yourself is this prospect sucked, then you made a massive mistake. And you can make so many excuses. It's so easy, I love excuses, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Everybody there, of course it gets it off your back.
Speaker 2:And I love not tearing that weight, but every time you do that you do yourself a disfavor. Because it could be, louise, that the prospect, maybe they were a difficult prospect. Okay, let that be that. Maybe that opponent you grappled with, maybe they were heavier than you, maybe they got 20 pounds of muscle on me. Maybe that's a reason why they were better. If I just let that be the reason why, then what's my alternative? I might get just gonna.
Speaker 1:Fundamentally, change what I'm doing for a person. You're not learning anything, yeah.
Speaker 2:So now I can think to myself okay, well, that person had 20 pounds on me. How do I take advantage of that? Because you got 20 pounds on me and I pull you. That's an extra 20 pounds, that's gonna be off balanced. So now I gotta work on how do I off balance you more often and quicker? Right, because that's how you grow in the sport. That's really what you learn as you progress in the Jiu Jitsu art.
Speaker 2:You learn not all the contexts are the same. Your opponent is not always the same. They might be heavier, they might be lighter. Sometimes I actually struggle more with lighter guys than I do with bigger dudes, because bigger guys are more to hold on to Smaller guys. They got hips that'll just turn out the dime and you're consistently chasing and chasing and chasing and chasing and chasing and you gotta learn. Okay, my game's gotta evolve now. But that's the cool thing about Jiu Jitsu. That's the same thing with sales. Your prospects might have an echo, they might be similar, but they're not the same. So you can't always say this is my A game and this is how I sell. No, you gotta listen. I love that guy.
Speaker 1:You gotta learn An echo, but not the same.
Speaker 2:Exactly they're an echo, but they're not the same. So if you just think I'm gonna apply the same thing that I've always done, I've always done, I've always done, You're gonna hit a brick wall when the world devolves around you, and that happens in Jiu Jitsu too. A few years ago, there was a crew out of New York they called the John Denneher Death Squad Because this gym and they called the Blue Basement, this stinky basement in New York City started working on these techniques that would attack the hip and the leg, and when they showed up to compete at the world stage, in ADCC or in the Mundiales, what they started noticing is that no other professional athletes who are also getting paid these are their money and that's like the Jiu Jitsu Olympics.
Speaker 1:This is the.
Speaker 2:World Cup. Yeah, this is the Jiu Jitsu Olympics. And they were tearing through the opponents and were talking about guys who were like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I win. How'd you tap me so easily? Because they were ahead of, because they evolved the sport and everyone else had to catch up. Exactly, and that happens to us in this sales world too. The one consistent thing, though, is those that crew the Denneher Death Squad evolved because they were happy to learn. If you stop learning, you're drowning.
Speaker 1:You're not gonna do well, oh yeah, I'm at the top and yeah, you got comfort, rocky man. Yeah, that's the story behind. What is it? Rocky two, rocky three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, consistently have got to train.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't stay in your comfort zone. No, I mean, yeah, that was that's like everything. Like if you reach the top, you get comfortable. You're like oh no, I'm super chill here, I don't need to learn, You're gonna get taken down.
Speaker 2:If I could freeze time and I can say, like I was number one in 2013 at that one competition, that'd be fantastic. If the only thing that ever mattered was that one competition back in 10 years ago. That's not the way the world works, you know. Just because I was number one 2015, I can't hold onto that glory forever. That's not who I am in 2023. You know, the world evolves and you gotta evolve with it. Yeah, absolutely. But that only happens when you can be humble. Now, when you recognize there's days that you show up where you're gonna be the hammer and there's days that you show up where you're gonna be the nail. And that's the parallel with sales, and you did so. You have got to evolve in sales. You have got to listen and learn and you gotta say, oh, this context is a little bit different, so let me try something new.
Speaker 2:I think the best thing about Jiu Jitsu as a combat sport compared to something like boxing or more time in boxing, there are dire consequences in the sense that if you get knocked out, you're losing brain. You're getting every time you get a little rocked or a little wobbly, that's brain cells that are dying, and Jiu Jitsu the worst thing that's gonna happen to me is you grab my neck, the world starts to go dark and I'm like you know what you got me? I'm gonna tap, and the second you tap you get to try again. I love that. If I get knocked out in boxing, I'm out for a good two, three months because you got to protect the brain, you know, and that probably might be rushing it to get back. But Jiu Jitsu, if I get tapped this round, I'm gonna take a break, drink some water with the electrolytes. I'm gonna be a little stretched out. I'm gonna say, okay, let me do it again.
Speaker 2:In sales, if I have a bad call, what time is it now? Right now it's gonna be noon. If right now I had the worst call in my life, I have five minutes where I can take a deep breath, say, well, that wasn't fun, what am I gonna do differently this next call? And I get to go again immediately. It's not like I'm a surgeon and I always think if I was a surgeon and I operate on hearts, if I have a bad day in the office, someone might have passed away. Those are dire consequences. But in sales, if I mess up this deal on to the next deal and that's the beauty of Jiu Jitsu you get to go again.
Speaker 1:That really puts it into perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that we get to try again and same in sales. But again we go back to are you sticking to your A game or are you getting out of your comfort zone to evolve? Are you seeing the market is now doing these leg locks? Am I gonna evolve with the market or am I gonna say that doesn't matter, let me stick to my A game, because then you're gonna get punished. Real bad when someone has that and you don't.
Speaker 2:So when we think about sales, hey, how are you prepared? By listening to your prospect, how will do you understand their business? You understand the context of the economy at large Right now. If you're selling agro, hey, the world's in a weird spot. Hey, how are you, as an agro company, pivoting with the weather patterns? How's that impacting you? That has nothing to do with software, but it's the context that your customer finds them solving. So let's think about that. If you're a construction company or you're a real estate developer, you ask yourself hey, so with interest rates going up, how are you pivoting? That has nothing to do with product. That has everything to do with their world and the context that you're stepping into you really gotta understand them, not just the theory behind it.
Speaker 1:Whether you're selling or your holds, it's the same thing. You gotta really take your toolbox and apply it in that context Exactly, and not everything's gonna work right then.
Speaker 2:And there I have what I believe to be a really decent snap down. Snap down is a wrestling technique that you use to get the fight to the ground. Mine's pretty decent, but there's some guys out there who have these massive shoulders and massive traps where I can try as hard as I can to snap down and it ain't working. So now is where I gotta get creative. So if I snap down to create a reaction, can I maybe pivot to the back? Can I get an arm drag and then cut the corner? Those are things that you learn through experience. So if I'm in a sales process and my snap down is not working, I gotta think to myself how do I pivot? So that's where being prepared, listening, that's that extra edge that you have. That's gonna make you productive when you are going through that sales process.
Speaker 2:Same with your did-see, being creative, being in the moment, being aware of what you know and what you don't know. That's what's gonna open up opportunities for you to try new things. Where you go back to that idea of you have to be open to knowing that you're gonna lose a lot more than you're gonna win and that's just a given. And you gotta learn to lose. You gotta learn to love to lose, exactly Cause you know what you, you, louise, maybe you're so much better than me and I can be frustrated. I can go home being like this sport sucks.
Speaker 2:I hated that opponent, you know what. And then I can, you know, start talking to myself and listen. Well, you know what. Maybe, maybe he's on the Jews, maybe he's on steroids and that's why he beat me. He can say well, you know what, like, of course he beat me. You know he was a D1 athlete, like, and that's where the excuses happen. Or I can recognize ooh, there's Levels to this game and you just showed me a brand new level. Okay, what does it take for me to get there? And that's where that learner's mindset, that growth mindset, that idea of let's step out of our comfort zone so we can grow, that's where you really win in jiu-jitsu and in sales. I love it and I guess in life, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I love it, David. Great lessons, Thanks. Any recommendations for someone in Hopspot in sales who wants to draw these lessons from jiu-jitsu and apply them in their sales and in their life in general?
Speaker 2:The first thing you gotta step up to the mats and you gotta start training. I do think there's a. It's funny because at Hopspot we have jiu-jitsu around the world, Like there's a doc jiu-jitsu club, there's a Dublin jiu-jitsu club, here in Cambridge, there's a few folks that train together or we all communicate with a Slack channel. In Bogotown, Bogospot, there's a jiu-jitsu academy right next door that we have a partnership with, where they'll let us go train. So it happens at any corner of the Hopspot world.
Speaker 2:So if you're interested in trying, find a Hopspotter, get someone to go to the mats with. But once you do show up, recognize that it's not gonna be what you imagined, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be rough. Maybe you'll recognize, ooh, I'm not as flexible as I thought I was, or I'm not in shape as I thought I was, or I'm not as tough as I thought I would be. And that's okay, because now it's about what comes next and you can choose never, ever to train again. Or you can say, okay, I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna be ready to try things in a different way.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing it lets you know where you gotta work on.
Speaker 2:Yeah you get immediate feedback. You get immediate feedback in the sport. So if you're interested, just like sales, because the market will decide the market gives you the feedback Absolutely. So if you're interested in trying to get to, I think, be brave and just give it a go. Make sure you stay hydrated. That's a great tip for sales for life.
Speaker 2:And sport. Make sure you stay hydrated, make sure you get your electrolytes in yet, because your body's a machine. Actually, I fully do mean this. There was an article in NPR that said when you're hydrated, you think faster, you process quicker and you have the ability to be more patient.
Speaker 1:I knew that Sometimes I mean you have a headache and oh, I'm gonna take an ibuprofen. All you need is electrolytes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or sometimes because of that headache, you stop listening and you're like, oh, I'm sorry, but what did you say prospect? Let me just take you to the demo. You can't do that. You gotta be hydrated. So stay hydrated will help you do better in sport and in your sales, causing your day to day and life in general we're like with your spouse anything yeah, yeah, your kids. So stay hydrated. That's the second tip and then the third tip. The third thing is look to learn. That's it. Jiu-jitsu is a sport where you learn, get ready to learn.
Speaker 1:Love it. All right, awesome Thanks, David. Hey, thanks guys. Thank you Love it. I was about to jump over my chair, but it's really cool.